Here is the third of my three-part interview with director Isaac Florentine, whose films I love and whose vision for action cinema is inspiring. Please check out Part 1 of this interview in which we discussed Florentine’s early film career and martial arts training. Don’t miss Part 2, either, where we discussed at length Florentine’s collaboration with star Scott Adkins and how he uses his entire team to capture the incredible action that he is known for. Below you’ll get some information on what Florentine has coming up next, including some in-depth thoughts on the success of the Boyka character from the Undisputed franchise!
Ed Travis: Your producer in the Fantastic Fest Q and A suggested an Undisputed 4 might be around the corner. What do you see as some of your next projects?
Isaac Florentine: I don’t know but I talked just within the last few days with Avi Lerner and Boaz Davidson and it looks like even though there are a few projects on the slow burner… it looks like Undisputed 4. It is amazing, that character Boyka. He is totally under the radar in the States. But when I go around the world, it is amazing. I’ll give you examples because I am in awe. I’m from Israel, right? Boyka did really well in Arab countries. The amount of emails that I am getting? Whoa! The movie did really well theatrically in the United Arab Emerites. I get emails from film fans in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan. It is humbling.
I went to scout a movie that I didn’t do because it clashed with Ninja, but I went to a favela in Sao Paolo, Brazil, where they shot City Of God. And we were with the local mobsters. And I saw an interesting section that I wanted to go to and my people said no. “This is where they distribute drugs, it is a sensitive area.” But I told my producers to ask them! We’re already here! So he goes and talks with them and comes back and says “We are lucky. The head of the gang is a fan of your movies.” So here comes the head of the mob. He says he loves my movies and he loves Boyka. So he comes with us on the location scout and gets us everything we want.
Or, another story, I was shooting with Scott in a Gypsy village in Bulgaria and people told us not to shoot there. But the people saw Scott and it was not Scott. It was Boyka. And they loved him. And I have thought about this. Boyka the character, he’s a Russian inmate. He is a grump. He is not a sympathetic character. He lives in the gutter. In a way he is a third world character. But Boyka has dignity. He has no self pity. And, of course, he is the most complete fighter in the world. We aren’t saying the best, the most complete. You know? That kind of character appeals to third world people.
Going back to spaghetti westerns, my favorite genre, there were like three Sergios. Sergio Leone, Sergio Corbucci, and Sergio Sollima. And Sollima did The Big Gundown. So Lee Van Cleef stars, but Tomas Milian starred as a character called Cuchillo, “The Knife”. He was illiterate, could hardly speak, went barefoot, looked like a hobo. But he was the hero of the movie. He was the first third world hero. And this kind of character prepared the West for someone like Bruce Lee. The first non-Anglo-Saxon hero. Bruce Lee and the Blacksploitation heroes began because of the Spaghetti Westerns. And in the 1980s and 1990s there was a regression to the larger than life heroes. But Boyka is an anti-hero. That is why he is appealing to people outside America. Here he is totally under the radar, but it is what it is.
ET: I got a chance to talk to Scott once several months ago and I asked him about this as well. Why do you think in the 1980s Americans wanted larger than life heroes like Stallone and Arnold and Van Damme… but now it seems like we don’t need those heroes? I do, I love seeing one man against the world, the stripped down action star. I love seeing Scott Adkins go unleashed. It connects with me but it seems like the larger American audience isn’t looking for that right now. I’m curious if you have thoughts on this.
IF: I do! The 1980s was the Ronald Reagan era. And the ’80s, people can criticize or not criticize, but it did change a lot of things for America. The walls between East and West Germany. The Cold War ended in a peaceful way. Vietnam was over. So characters like Rambo or Chuck Norris emerged. What happened today? First, CGI. In my opinion CGI ruined the genre! And everyone uses CGI, but the overuse of CGI made every hero into a superhero. And you know it is fake! If a helicopter crashes and the rotor blade flies right next to my face? You know it is fake. It is animation. I’m against it because I try to go old school. Buster Keaton, Jackie Chan… what you see is what you get. Bruce Lee… the King of all Kings! So that is what happened to action movies. Anybody can be a hero. That is a problem.
A great martial artist also has to learn screen martial arts to be an on screen hero. I’ve been doing martial arts my whole life and I understand movie martial arts. But I can’t do it! I understand it but I can’t really do it. Marko and Scott and others are solid in both arenas. Same as Bruce Lee.
ET: We’re going long and I don’t mean to take up too much of your time. But I love what you are doing and the style that you are achieving. Do you think that the work you are doing and the fanbase you are building is creating any kind of a groundswell in North America for more traditional martial arts films to make a comeback?
IF: I hope so.
ET: I mean, there is an international audience for this kind of thing, but less so in North America. What do you think? Are there a lot of people like me here in North America that need that old school element to come back again?
IF: “Need” is a relative question. I think it looks better. And people here are movie savvy. Even people who don’t understand cinema, however, feel those long takes. They feel them in their gut. Maybe they don’t understand how to describe it, but they feel it. If it is better… it is better. And I would like to see more of it. But again, it is pretty under the radar in the States. Producers don’t seem to give a hoot. They want to get names and make money. You can see it in this Summer’s films. Big blockbuster action stuff ended up as flop after flop. They are becoming synthetic and losing their heart. They are losing integrity.
Look, Ninja is a total matinee movie, a total genre movie. You know the story before the story starts. There aren’t a lot of layers here. There isn’t a deep meaning. But it holds you because it has integrity. We did it with care. And that is the difference.
ET: Well thanks so much, man. I really loved the movie. You pulled it off! I had very high expectations and you still blew my mind. All of my friends had a blast with it here at Fantastic Fest.
IF: Thank you, it was the toughest movie I ever did. Shooting in Thailand was tough. Now I can’t wait to go back to Thailand. Now I know what to do and what to avoid.
ET: Oh, no! Before I go I wanted to ask about Kane Kosugi and how you got involved with him. I also want to say that I’m a fan of his father’s films, but you got a better fight out of Kane than any of Sho Kosugi’s films ever acheived. This is his first American film as an adult, right?
IF: I believe Kane is underused. Why? He is an American who went to Japan when he was 18. He is between the two worlds. People underuse him. He is a California kid! I wish I could speak English like he can, not to mention my accent. But Kane also speaks fluent Japanese. I met him a few years ago but we’d never had the chance to work together. And this was the opportunity. I knew he would carry the acting and create the character. I knew the action would be fantastic and that he’d do his own stunts because he is a stunt guy. I told him, though, Kane, grow out a beard because you look too young. He is the same age as Scott but he looks younger. So he grew out the facial hair and Boaz Davidson asks, “Why didn’t you ask him to shave?” And I told Boaz I took the responsibility. Because he looked too young! He is like Scott and Marko, he comes prepared. Easy to work with. He does his own stuff, crazy falls, crazy fights. I cannot wait for the next opportunity to work with him.
Who’s ready for Undisputed 4? I know I am. Although, now that I think about it, anytime Isaac Florentine gets behind a camera for a feature film, count me in. Even more so if he is partnered up with any of the on-screen talent discussed throughout these three pieces.
Action movie fans, do your part and seek out the films of Isaac Florentine! He and his peers are creating next level hand-to-hand combat sequences that Hollywood needs to be paying attention to. There is something fun about being “in” on the Isaac Florentine secret. But you know what would be even more fun? Seeing Florentine, or Adkins, or any of their ilk strutting their stuff in America on the big screen in massively-budgeted action epics. If anyone can keep the soul of the action amidst the size of the spectacle, it is Isaac Florentine.
And I’m Out.