One of my favorite things that transpired this year was getting to sit down and chat with Zoë Bell who was at Fantastic Fest repping the 10th anniversary of Raze. For those that haven’t seen Raze, it’s the story of a group of women who are kidnapped and forced to fight to the death on camera for a group of wealthy men led by Doug Jones who watch from the shadows. Each woman has someone who’s life depends on their participation and Zoë Bell plays Sabrina, a veteran who is brought into the tournament and is just trying to see her daughter again. While the first time I saw the film years ago, I enjoyed the film simply for its gnarly hand to hand battle, watching it today, it’s hard to ignore the subtext of a group of women forced to fight one another for the entertainment of a group of wealthy men.
With nearly a decade experience and perspective now under her belt, it was great to chat with Bell about her role as not only Sabrina, but as a producer. I soon discovered I wasn’t too far of the mark at my take on the film and Bell also informed me on how she influenced the film for the better. If you’re a fan of Raze Bell drops some great bits on not only the development from short to feature, but the production and the ending, which Quentin Tarantino didn’t hold back about how he felt about it.
You were doing this thing that was kind of unheard of at the time where you were transitioning from a stunt woman into a leading woman. So what was that experience like for you?
Zoë Bell: You know, Death Proof was it really. But I dunno quite if this sounds how it should, but it wasn’t really my choice. Like, I certainly hadn’t gone as a stunt woman, I would like to graduate into acting – I had been interested in the idea more while doing Kill Bill, it was Quentin’s fault, basically. It’s entirely Quentin’s fault. I’ve had this thing, like if I’m feeling like, ‘oh, I don’t wanna do it’, and I recognize that feeling and then I recognize it as fear. Once I’ve recognized it as fear, the other voice in my head is like, ‘wow, now you’re gonna have to do it’.
Dan: Zoë Bell has fear?
Zoë Bell: Hell yeah, she does. Sorry, is that really disappointing? (laughs) Acting scared the sugar outta me. Still does, terrifies me. But once I did that, then I was like, I kind of have to pursue this a little bit more. Raze came to me as a short film, which was basically Rachel Nichols was the lead and at the very end I come in, we have the fight, and that was the end of the short.
But as we were raising money, and this is now a long time ago, and it was my first time as a producer, so it’s a bit hazy. But I said I would come on as a producer, because I wanted to have some insight as to what happens in that part of the process. I had always been afraid of the production office.
I was like, Ugh, don’t go there. I don’t know. It’s money and numbers and people in suits and so I was like, fuck it. I should probably find out a little bit about it. So I got involved as a producer and then I don’t even remember how it came about. Some of the conversation we were like, well shit, if we get a little bit more money, we could make it into a feature and I would be the lead of that. And as a producer it was my first time really being like, ‘oh, I have some insight and I want to have a voice in this character, the story and the development of both of those things’. That was when I went, ‘Ooh, this is like crack’. I want more of that, I love the collaboration, it’s sort of like doing a puzzle, you know?
When the premise first came to you, what was your thoughts on it? Because, for me its kind of, this metaphor for the way men sort of view women in the entertainment industry. How you’re all sort of like put in this battle royal out to fight it out.
Zoë Bell: It’s just basically every audition room in La (laughs)
That’s exactly what I thought I was watching, it for this interview. I remember watching it when it first came out, but watching it now, that subtext really jumped out at me and it was still as relevant as ever. What kind of influence as a woman coming into this project over the script and what not?
Zoë Bell: Lots. I was deeply involved in that and I remained very appreciative of that and I thoroughly enjoyed the process and found it really satisfying for exactly what you are alluding to. When it first came to me, it was definitely more like women in prison. Like pin-up, get your tits out. No judgment about those movies and their existence.
No. If you’re doing exploitation, you’re doing exploitation, that’s fine.
Zoë Bell: Hundred percent.
But the thing is, is like the players are even rather conservatively dressed.
Zoë Bell: That was me. That those outfits are mine. I was like, I already know I want ’em in white wife beaters and gray sweats. Like that was just the, and I want ’em all in the same outfit.
And some rolled it up their one pants leg, which back in the day meant you were a Billy Badass.
Zoë Bell: Its like the school uniform. That’s how you get to see people’s personalities is how they wear the clothes they’re given. Even though they’re all the same, you still see different things about them. That was really appealing to me, and there was something about the whole sort of the dehumanizing of these women by making them all wear the same thing. There is something, innate, especially when it’s done in a negative connotation and situation such as being imprisoned and forced, to fight to the death (laughs). It’s inherent. So, when we started developing it for me, I was like, ‘Hey, if I’m playing Sabrina, you know, like the street fighter of it all, how do we, how do we avoid that trope or how do we do something different?’
If we are doing this as women, very few women in my life, just because it’s a tournament would willingly kill people. Like in order to get to the place where they are committed to killing someone, especially an innocent person and another female, that’s not showing them any danger except for they’re under the same duress. I was like each of these women have to have a reason. Like what would mine be? And for me at the time, I was like, it’s my brother. Like if you had my brother, I will kill you. If I can, any other situation just about, I don’t know that I would be able to bring myself to do it.
Once we started tapping into that, then it was like, ‘Ooh, what if each of these women has someone?’ So it’s really like, you don’t have a choice, if you don’t fight or you don’t win, that person dies, like that. Now you’re talking about, that drive to fight and to kill is coming from somewhere real. That was an important piece for me also. Then it’s like, oh, this is interesting. Like if you’ve got a young girl who’s never fought before. How would she fight if you’ve got someone who’s a soldier, who knows how to fight, does she want to hold back? Is she willing to, you know. So, it just became like using action in pursuit of character study was really engaging for me.
Speaking of which, how involved were you in the choreography of the fights, because there’s a conscious effort to make sure not to lose the performances of the characters and maintaining them throughout the fights?
Zoë Bell:I was very involved with fights, obviously. James (Young), our coordinator is a champion. He’s gone on to do, like Marvel stuff. He’s a British guy. He is amazing and was really, open to, I mean I had very honest conversations with him, where I was like, I’m definitely gonna have a lot of opinions. Don’t take it personally collaborative is my jam. But, I definitely have very strong thoughts about these things and I know what I’m wanting, what I’m looking for. You know, he was really cool about it and very open about it, which was great. I dunno if he had a choice, but he did very well with not having a choice. He’s just brilliant in terms of piecing together choreography as well. So when I was speaking I could see him going, oh, I understand what you mean.
A huge part of what we do is interpreting what someone’s vision is and then giving it back to them as best we can. Yeah. And he did a great job of that. For me as a performer, it was great actually because it was like getting to use my physicality, which has for a long time had been my comfort zone. That is my place of peace. Ironically, (laughs), you know, as an athlete, that’s that place that I know achieving it is the goal. I know I’m capable. It’s just a matter of getting to it, or completing it, but using my physicality to access that kind of emotion was something that had come about. I think I’d been doing it my whole life, just not consciously and then on Kill Bill Quentin sort of made me conscious of it in a way that then I got to really play with and raise it.
I have to ask have you ever kicked somebody’s ass in real life?
Zoë Bell: In real life? No, I punched a guy once. Well, I guess I, I punched him, and I put him on the ground. So I guess it worked, but it was just one punch. He definitely was asking for it.
The irony is I’ve never liked sparring. I’m that girl who would be sparring, but every time I actually made a connection I would apologize. I’m like, ‘oh, sorry’. I don’t get a kick out of hurting people. Taking hits is like, yeah, it’s not my favorite thing, obviously, but it’s not something I’m unaccustomed to and if I’m in the mode, it’s just part of the parcel. But I struggle watching fights still. If I’m in the wrong mind frame or I see someone’s parent looking like at their kid getting, hit. I’m about to emotionally throw up. I’m definitely not a fighter mind at, at all. And I know that’s disappointing for a lot of people.
Finally, was that always the ending? Like, it’s bleak, but was that always the ending?
No, it wasn’t always the ending. And again, it’s sort of vague now, the actual process that we went through. But my memory is, I mean, this is a spoiler alert! But we had definitely discussed her surviving and it was definitely, Josh, the director felt pretty strongly that she shouldn’t. He had his reasons that that made sense to me at the time. I was definitely all for her surviving. I definitely had sort of as a beginner, as a baby lead actress, also being a stunt girl and being from New Zealand – I shied away from being like, she should survive because I made it about me. So in my head I was like, I don’t wanna be fighting so that my character doesn’t die. Like if he creatively wants her to die, I had no ego in it.
But my desire to make it clear that I didn’t have an ego, stopped me from sort of speaking creatively as loudly as maybe I would have. Also, I wasn’t the director on this movie. People have very varied responses to the ending. Quentin rang me having seen this movie in the theater, which was, oh, I so stoked, he went to see it in the theater last day it was in theaters. He rang and left a voice message and he was super complimentary about it compared it to Battle Royale, which is high praise coming from him, ’cause it’s one of his favorites.
He basically was like, some amazingly complimentary Battle Royale reference and then he said, but I fucking hate the ending! (laughs). I was like, oh bugger, I get it. His thing was spoiler alert again. But his thing was, if you’re gonna flip up a card that says “Sabrina versus everyone”, she needs to just kill everybody. (laughs). And if you put the audience and Sabrina through what you’ve put everyone through, you deserve her to win. I was like, that’s really interesting, especially coming from him. ’cause he is not averse to like, flipping an, an ending, you know?
